Saturday, October 31, 2009


Female H: Married to Robinson

Frank Hugh Robinson (Ydna R1b1b2 or R-M269) married Augusta Gustafson of Sweden. She is of H Haplogroup.

Frank and Augusta's son married Eleanor Kalkwarf, who is also an H. It covers a large territory. Eleanor was not from Sweden. I believe her line came from Hanover, Oldensburg, Germany.

Gustafson, Sweden=H with one difference from CRS: 16354 is a T.

Eleanor Kalkwarf=H with 4 differences from CRS: 16189=C, 16356=C, 16362=C, 16519=C

H for Helena: the most widespread and successful of the 7 daughters of Eve.

It's the largest group there is for females and is found almost everywhere.
This branch started about expanding about 20,000 years ago between France and Spain near what is now Perpignan. She belonged to a group of hunters who worked the oyster beds in lagoons of the Carmargue to supplement their meat. Helena's clan arrived in Europe from the Middle East, pushed their way along the Mediterranean.

We find that Augusta Gustafson's line from Sweden has only found 1.3% matching her with 16 matches out of 1,230 MTdna tests. 1.5% from Finland with 17 matches out of 1,150 tests, 1.1% from Switzerland out of 9 matches from 785 tests,

We find that Eeanor Kalkwarf's line from Germany has not found anyone 1% or better. The highest % found is.09% from Slovenia matching her with 1 out of 112 tests, .08% from Netherlands with 7 matches out of 850 tests, 0.8% from Czech Republic with 2 out of 495, and .07% from Bulgaria with 1 match out of 148 tests, .07% from Latvia with 1 Jewish Ashkenazi out of 149 tests, 0.7% from Poland with either 1 or 17 matches (?) out of 2,571 tests, and 0.7% from Wales with 4 matches out of 583 tests.

Specific mitochondrial haplogroups are typically found in different regions of the world, and this is due to unique population histories. In the process of spreading around the world, many populations—with their special mitochondrial haplogroups—became isolated, and specific haplogroups concentrated in geographic regions. Today, we have identified certain haplogroups that originated in Africa, Europe, Asia, the islands of the Pacific, the Americas, and even particular ethnic groups. Of course, haplogroups that are specific to one region are sometimes found in another, but this is due to recent migration.Mitochondrial haplogroup H is a predominantly European haplogroup that originated outside of Europe before the last glacial maximum (LGM). It first expanded in the northern Near East and southern Caucasus between 33,000 and 26,000 years ago, and later migrations from Iberia suggest it reached Europe before the LGM. It has also spread to Siberia and Inner Asia. Today, about 40% of all mitochondrial lineages in Europe are classified as haplogroup H.

With further testing, H is broken down into subgroups such as H1, H1a, H1b, H2 etc.

CRS (Cambridge Reference Sequence) Mitochondrion sequenced in 1981 became known as the CRS and has been used as a basis for comparison with our mtDNA. Where our mtDNA is difference from the CRS it is characterized as a difference or mutation.

Haplogroup: H H is a branch of the human genetic tree (Phylogenetic tree). It is tied to deep ancestry (think 10,000 or 10s of 1,000's of years).

HVR1 and HVR2 (HyperVariaable Region 1 & 2) Two sections or regions of mtDNA that are tested. Results used to determine a person's ethnic and geographic origins and look for possible common ancestry with other individuals.

mtDNA (mitochondrial DNA) genetic stuff found in mitochondria passed down from females to both son and daughter, but sons can not pass down their mother's mtDNA.

mutation: a change in the gene or chromosome taking the form of a chemical rearrangement or a little loss or gain of genetic material.

Reference: Familytreedna website

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Robinson Discussion Group

I'm in the's Yahoo discussion group of Robinson at

Hopefully I can find out more information as to Robinson dna or genealogy.

Wednesday, October 28, 2009


RARE DYS 390=21 From Celts

The mean frequency of DYS 390 is 24. We are 21, and that is very rare. What does it mean?

Baltic--Russian R1b:Research showed that the greatest diversity of R1b's DYS 390 locus is within the Russian-Baltic region. The data suggested that the Russian-Baltic variant migrated/expanded from the Kazan region of Russia westwards to Moscow, and then to the Baltic States of Finland, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia & Poland.
In this Baltic-Russian area, a sample of 159 haplotypes showed the R1b DYS390 percentages to be:

DYS 390=25. 28.9%;
DYS 390=24. 32.7%;
DYS 390=23. 32.1%;
DYS 390=22. 3.1%

Diversity: 68.6% (²)

This is not the Robinson's territory at all. The number of 21 does not show up at all.

Heyer study of 1997 recorded a mutation rate of zero for DYS390 and DYS393. Although the DYS390 marker
has not exhibited a mutation rate as consistently low as DYS393 in other studies, the results of the Heyer study suggest
that it is a relatively stable marker. As such, particular values of DYS390 may be acquired less often by random
mutation, and therefore may be more likely to reflect a shared ancestry among the haplotypes that exhibit them.
The sense we get from these AMH variations is that they occur predominantly among the
Celts of continental Europe and their Teutonic brethren along the North Sea coast.

R1b DYS390=21 Haplotype #1

This haplotype is rare, and it is difficult to make judgments without sufficient data. Nonetheless, two of the three
European hits are Iberian. Moreover, both Galicia and the Strasbourg area have a history of Celtic settlement.


R1b1b2 R=M269

Within the clade, R1b1b2 (R-M269) by far the most common subclade of R1b in Western Europe, it has been said that they have reached its highest diversity (having the most differences) in Iberia (Spain) and Anatolia, Turkey. This is our Robinson haplogroup.

On-going analysis of newly discovered clades within both R-M343 and R-M269 should significantly improve our understanding of the geographical paths followed by these lineages ancestrally.

My son and my mother's father were R1b1b2's. My son's DYS 393 was a 13 while my uncle's DYS 393 was a 12.

Their DYS 390 was also different. My son's was 23 while my uncle's was 21. This is the next area to study. The rest were in agreement.

My son's haplogroup is 1 point away from the Atlantic model. It seems they populated Europe the most. They must have been stronger, healthier and better equipped to become so productive where others died out. Let's hope their success continues through the ages.

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Saturday, October 24, 2009


Three Pictures to Identify of Wenona, IL Robinson Family

This first picture is on Edgar C. Robinson born 1892 and was a Sergeant in WWI. The sailor is Charles T. Robinson, his brother born in 1891.
The next picture of the soldier without a hat is John Franklin Robinson, the 3rd brother b: in 1896. All three must have served in WWI.

After a recent trip on Oct 16th to the Wenona Cemetery, I had pictures to post given to me by Tom Mead, our 2nd cousin. Out of 6, we are having a hard time identifying at least 2 of them, possibly 3.

We think that the
man with the hat that looks like Bing Crosby is also John Franklin Robinson.
The man with the tie and shirt is unidentified but must be one of the Robinsons. He has quite a full mustache.

The two men together must be Robinson brothers, but are not identified as yet. They're in civilian clothing, so I just don't know. I see they don't have sideburns. The man on the right has a small mustache. They have groovy shoes, nicely polished. Did they learn that in the service of WWI?

Resource: Pictures funished by Tom Mead.

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Visited Wenona, Illinois Cemetery October 16, 2009

On the left we are going into the cemetery on the next turn. On the right is a view of the cemetery.

2nd cousins Tom Mead and David Goldfoot meet in the cemetery for first time. It was cold and windy.

Here is David's car parked in the cemetery on the road that winds through it. We went back after lunch in the one and only tavern after having a great meal there. I hated to give up the search for anyone on our tree and did find a few more headstones of importance.

The cemetery was well taken care of and so pictureque with amazing headstones wherever you looked. Our family was in section 80 in a corner. I couldn't find a headstone with Abiathar Smith Robinson's name on it, but he was there according to the cemetery map. Here you see the road going through the cemetery.

The day was lovely, but cold and windy. My fingers were so stiff I could hardly push the button on my camera. At noon we stopped and had lunch in town. There are about 1,000 people living in Wenona. I was very pleased to see a library on the Main Street.

There were many tall headstones. You didn't see the ones lying flush on the ground as much like I see in Oregon.

David Goldfoot and Tom Mead, the 2nd cousins. David's and my mother was Mildred Elizabeth Robinson, daughter of Frank Hugh Robinson. His father was Abiathar Smith Robinson. Abiathar's youngest son was Arthur Roy Robinson, who lies here in the cemetery. Arthur was the grandfather of Tom Mead whose mother was Leola Marie Robinson, Arthur's daughter. Arthur had married Minnie Mae Smith, another Smith in the family. We're still trying to figure out more about Abiathar's Smith connection and feel it was Sally Smith, wife of Hiram Robinson who was left widowed with children and remarried Thomas Russell of Wenona.

This was the entrance to the Wenona Cemetery. Wenona lies in Marshall County while the cemetery, just outside of town, lies in LaSalle County. I was told that in the town one side of the street is in Marshall and the other side of the street is in LaSalle. I guess it's a border town.

The ride here was just lovely with lots of corn growing on either side of the road.

My brother David Goldfoot drove me from Madison, WI the 150+ miles to the Wenona Cemetery on October 16, 2009. We were met by our 2nd cousin, Tom Mead, who showed us around the cemetery and where our great grandparents were buried.

I was able to take a lot of digital pictures to post on which I started doing so after arriving back home in Oregon. I was so surprised to find the cemetery was so beautiful and well taken care of. What a rush I had to see great grandmother Julia Ann Robinson nee Tuller's tall and old fashioned headstone along with others.

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Julia Ann Robinson's Obit from Tom Mead

Julia Ann Robinson nee Tuller
December 18, 1834-December 2, 1887

Luckily 2nd cousin Tom had the obit from the Wenona newspaper about our great grandmother, Julia Ann Robinson nee Tuller. When I went into the library to see it, their machine was broken, but I do have a blurred copy from Tom where I can read some of it. The copy machine messed up quite a bit of it.

Obituary Sent to me from Tom Mead in Good Condition:

Mrs. Julia A. Robinson, wife of A.S. Robinson, after suffering so intensely and so long, passed away from our life and our world last Friday at noon, and entered into that broader world where our knowledge is free from the burden of sense and trouble. Mrs. Robinson (Julia Ann Teller) was born in Royalton, VT. In 1834 married to A.S. Robinson in 1851. The family consisted of ten children, eight of whom are now living, five of them at home. She was converted about a year ago, and professed holiness shortly after, and death found her ready to go. Her life was not all sunshine, nor was it as easy nor as free from trouble, but nobly did she bear her part, and faithfully did she do her duty. A true woman and a faithful wife and mother. All that was mortal of her was buried in the Wenona Cemetery, the funeral services being held at Cumberland Presbyterian Church and conducted by the Rev John Bitison of Lacon.

Thank you Tom. This was a great help. I notice that they had her maiden name was Teller.

Wenona Times – Thursday 8 December 1887

Also, I would hope there would be one for her husband, our great grandfather, Abiathar Smith Robinson referred to as A.S. Robinson. That could be holding most vital information like who his parents were and why he came to Wenona in the first place and from where.

Wednesday, October 14, 2009


Border Reivers DNA Project

Our Robinson DNA has just been accepted into the Border Reivers DNA Project which works with DYS 393=12. The administrator said that Robinson is sometimes a variation of the surname of Robison. I'm very happy to find a group that is working with our rare DYS 393.

Tuesday, October 13, 2009


History: Where Was R1b1b2 From? When?

R1b1b2 probably appeared during Maykop culture. It was an advanced Neolithic culture of farmers and herders, and one of the very first to develop metalworking, and therefore metal weapons. Stuck between two seas and the Caucasus, they imaginably traded actively around the Black Sea, notably with the other R1b people from northern Anatolia (those that didn't cross the Caucasus and might be the ancestors of the Hittites).

Horse were first domesticated in the neighbouring Yamna culture (modern Ukraine) approximately 3500 BCE, and chariots were invented in the north-eastern steppes around 2000 BCE. Cavalry and chariots played an vital role in the subsequent Indo-European migrations, allowing them to move quickly and defeat easily anybody they encountered. Combined with advanced bronze weapons and their sea-based culture, R1b people are excellent candidates for being the mysterious Sea Peoples, who raided the eastern shores of the Mediterranean during the second millennium BCE.

The European branch
The Indo-Europeans' bronze weapons and horses would have given them a tremendous advantage over the autochthonous inhabitants of Europe, namely the native haplogroup I (descendant of Cro-Magnon), and the early Neolithic herders and farmers (G2a and E-V13). This allowed R1a and R1b to quickly replace (in all likelihood through warfare) most of the native male lineages, although female lineages seem to have been less affected.

R1b1b2 is thought to have arrived in central and western Europe around 2300 BCE, by going up the Danube from the Black Sea coast. This correspond to an archeological vacuum in the old Maykop homeland, so the migration must have been on a massive scale, maybe due to pressure from other (R1a) Indo-European people from the north. There might have been several consecutive waves across the Black Sea to the Danube, but the largest one between 2500 BCE (end of the Maykop culture) and 2300 BCE (beginning of the Unetice culture).

Other waves of (seaborne) R1b1b2 invaders from the Pontic-Caspian homeland are thought to have settled in Anatolia a few centuries later, where they became the Luwians, Lycians and Lydians (1450 BCE). Troy was most probably a colony to secure the trade routes of the Sea Peoples between the Black Sea and the Aegean. The Trojans were Luwian speakers related to the Hittites, with proven cultural ties to the culture of the Pontic-Caspian steppe. The first city of Troy dates back to 3000 BCE, right in the middle of the Maykop period, and exatly at the time the first galleys were made.

Resource: familytreedna:

Monday, October 12, 2009


Amos III Robinson's Father: From Royalton to Illinois

Amos Robinson Jr. was involved with moving to Illinois very early from Royalton, Vermont. Perhaps he is the reason that Abiathar Smith, my gggrandfather moved there. He is the father of Amos III Robinson.

Descendants of Amos Jr. Robinson
1 Amos Jr. Robinson b: September 25, 1767 in Lebanon,Grafton, New Hampshire/ New London, Connecticut
. +Levina Bullock b: 1773 in Orange, New Hampshire
.... 2 Amos III Robinson b: December 28, 1797 in Royalton, Windsor County, Vermont
........ +Betsey Davis b: January 12, 1800 in Royalton, Vermont
.... *2nd Wife of Amos III Robinson:
........ +Lois Safford b: December 04, 1800 in Royalton, Vermont
.... 2 Hiram Robinson b: August 12, 1799 in Royalton, Windsor, Vermont
........ +Almira Morgan b: Abt. 1800 in Rhode Island
.... 2 Cephas Robinson b: Bet. February 1801 - 1802 in Royalton, Windsor County, Vermont
.... 2 Joel Robinson b: 1803 in Prob. Royalton, Vermont
.... 2 George Robinson b: 1804 in Royalton, Windsor, Vermont
.... 2 Allen Joseph Bullard Robinson b: December 27, 1805 in Royalton, Vermont
........ +Lucy Sargent b: January 22, 1813 in Pomfret, Connecticut
.... 2 [1] Cyrus Robinson b: Bet. 1808 - 1809
........ +[2] Thankful Unknown b: Abt. 1812
*2nd Wife of Amos Jr. Robinson:
. +Elizabeth "Betsey" Hughes b: 1784 in Norwich, Windsor, Connecticut
.... 2 Emily Robinson b: 1807 in Royalton, Norwich, Windsor County, Vermont
.... 2 [1] Cyrus Robinson b: Bet. 1808 - 1809
........ +[2] Thankful Unknown b: Abt. 1812
.... 2 Maria Marcia Robinson b: 1810 in Royalton, Vermont
.... 2 Hartwell Robinson b: June 08, 1815 in Royalton, Windsor, Vermont
........ +Fairazina "Rizina" Morris b: September 16, 1825 in Decatur, Illinois/New York/Indiana
.... 2 Marilla Robinson b: December 20, 1817 in Royalton, Windsor County, Vermont
........ +Dayton Francis Dunham b: November 12, 1814 in Woodbridge, Essex County, New Jersey
.... 2 Daniel Robinson b: 1820 in Royalton, Windsor, Vermont
........ +Margaret Oakes Daly Dailey b: 1822 in Pennsylvania
From Susan Dudra and Kay Robinson, direct lines comes this information.
10/24/04 This Amos went to Illinois first and died there. His son Amos III finally moved there to be with his siblings, perhaps. Now this is questionable. He was found in Wisconsin in 1860-1870.10/27/04 from Centenial History of Decatur and Macon County: The Robinson FamilyOne early settler, who entered, from the government, land which is now a part of the city, was Amos Robinson, who came in 1830 from Royalton, Vt. The Robinson, the Packard, and the Hunting families came together to Macon county. A letter written by Mrs. Robinson to home folks, on Sept 8, tells of their safe arrival after a fatiguing journey. They had arrived July 26, 1830. On Sept. 8, the day the letter was written, Mr. Packard died. Mrs. Robinson deplored the fact that they were all ill with the chills and ague and unable to attend the funeral of their friend, Mr. Packard. that was Silas Packard, Sr., father of the Silas Packard whose name appears elsewhere in the history of the county. He lived only about 6 years after coming here, but was active during those early years in the history of the county. He was one of the men who helped to build the old log court hose. The land was in the west section of the city. The Springfield road (now West Main street and Route 10) passed through their land. It was part of this land which later came into possession of James Milliken, and became the site of his home and the university.

Amos Robinson Family in Royalton, Vermont

Abiathar or Abiatha Smith Robinson b: 1829 Vermont married my ggrandmother, Julia Ann Tuller of Royalton, Vermont. They married a few miles away in Tunbridge, Vermont on February 29, 1852. Now I do not believe that we are connected to Oscar Robinson's family as the dna show that we are not a match. Oscar was the son of Hiram and Sally Robinson and Sally's maiden name was Smith.

Julia was from Royalton. Her Tuller family are on the 1850 census and they have a John Robinson, farmer, age 51 living with them that makes me wonder who he was. A man named John Robinson, age 51, farmer born in VT was living with the Alonzo Tuller family in Royalton, VT in the 1850 census. This is the closest connection to date between the two families prior to the marriage of A.S. and Julia. He was not on the 1860 or others past that date. He was born either 1799 or 1800.

On the 1850 census in Royalton resided Amos III Robinson and his family shown below. Though Abiathar did not show up in the records, I can't help but wonder if he isn't connected. Amos Robinson is quite a name in New England history books. The name is in a book about Royalton, Vermont genealogy that was an inter-state library loan for me. It had a lot of information.

Descendants of Amos III Robinson
1 Amos III Robinson b: December 28, 1797 in Royalton, Windsor County, Vermont
. +Betsey Davis b: January 12, 1800 in Royalton, Vermont
.... 2 [1] Betsey M. Robinson b: 1824 in Royalton, Windsor County, Vermont
........ +[2] George H. Clark b: Abt. 1823 in Vermont
*2nd Wife of Amos III Robinson:
. +Lois Safford b: December 04, 1800 in Royalton, Vermont
.... 2 Austin M. Robinson b: Abt. 1820 in Royalton, Windsor County, Vermont
........ +Elisabeth b: Abt. 1830 in Vermont
.... *2nd Wife of Austin M. Robinson:
........ +Mary E. Unknown b: 1830 in Vermont
.... 2 Martha Robinson b: Abt. 1823 in Royalton, Windsor County, Vermont
........ +American b: Abt. 1822
.... *2nd Husband of Martha Robinson:
........ +Irishman b: Abt. 1822
.... *3rd Husband of Martha Robinson:
........ +Unknown Dutchman b: Abt. 1820
.... *4th Husband of Martha Robinson:
........ +Unknown Englishman b: Abt. 1822
.... 2 [1] Betsey M. Robinson b: 1824 in Royalton, Windsor County, Vermont
........ +[2] George H. Clark b: Abt. 1823 in Vermont
.... 2 Nancy Robinson b: 1824 in Royalton, Windsor County, Vermont
........ +George W. Fay Fry
.... 2 Mary Ann Robinson b: Abt. 1826 in Royalton, Windsor County, Vermont
........ +Norman Thatcher b: November 22, 1824 in Pomfret, Vermont
.... 2 Cyrus Robinson b: 1830 in Royalton, Windsor County, Vermont
.... 2 Dwight G Robinson b: 1832 in Royalton, Windsor County, Vermont
.... 2 Alfred S. Robinson b: July 06, 1836 in Royalton, Windsor County, Vermont
........ +Armina Hubbard b: Abt. 1838 in Illinois
.... 2 Calvin Robinson b: 1836 in Royalton, Windsor County, Vermont
........ +Kate b: 1842 in Pennsylvania
.... 2 William Robinson b: 1839 in Royalton, Windsor County, Vermont
.... 2 Charles Robinson b: 1845 in prob. Royalton, Windsor County, Vermont

Sunday, October 11, 2009


Who Was John Robinson in 1850 in Royalton, Vermont

Living with my gggrandmother, Asenath Tullar and her husband, Alonzo and their children lived a John Robinson, age 51, farmer in Royalton, Windsor, Vermont found on the October 28,1850 census. Their daughter, my gggrandmother Julia Ann, was 15 years old. Little did they know that she would marry an Abiathar Smith Robinson in two more years. Was John related to Abiathar? One would think so. Could he have been the father of Abiathar? Is that how Julia met Abiathar? More likely he was of another branch of Robinsons as the dna is so different between Hiram's line and Abiathar's line.

Abiathar and Julia Ann married very nearby in Tunbridge, Vermont on February 29, 1852. I thought a Hiram was his father and Sally Smith was his mother, but dna is making me question my theory as it's not a match with Hiram's son, Oscar.

I do not have a John Robinson on the list of children along with Hiram Robinson, assumed father. He could have as the John in Royalton was born in about 1799 and the children of James and Abigail Robinson, Hiram's parents, were born starting in the year 1803. The only other male listed was Reuben born in 1818 who married Emeline Smith, Sally Robinson nee Smith's sister. The two Smith girls had married two Robinson boys: Sally and Hiram, and Emeline and Reuben.

Pursuing Facts on R1b1b2 (R-L21) and DYS 393 Leads to Middle East Origins

Grandfather Abiathar Smith Robinson's ancestors started 5,000-8,000 years ago, maybe before the last ice age.
July 31, 2011 update: Haplogroup upgraded on 67 alleles to be R1b1a2a1a1b4:

Having a DYS of 393 =12 is very rare with Haplogroup R1b1b2. Here is a conversation I have found on Dienekes' Anthopology Blog about it and might prove Jewish origins. It seems that Haplogroup R is older than J, a haplogroup many Jews have.

Aaron said...
According to the book The Early History of the Hebrews, there were pastoralists that extended all the way from Northern Africa and into S. Asia along the coast. These people would have been commonly called Amorites, or potentially many tribes of similarly related peoples. They were documented by the Egyptians with similar phenotypes to the ancient Celts. (tall stature, red haired) Eventually these people were assimilated into other tribes along the Canaan. They may have been Semitic speakers, or possibly not. In any event, I think these men are strong candidates for early R1b we find there today.
Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:51:00 AM

from Maju: All Ashkenazim with R1b1b2 are DYS-393=13. And do fit otherwise well enough with the R1b1b2a1 subhaplotypes. Iranian, Kurdish and Tunisian Jews are DYS-393=12 and fit in the root haplotype, common in Anatolia. One of the Palestinian Jews is also DYS-393=12 and the other markers suggest close affinty with a derived haplotype found specially in Croatia in Alonso'05. Only the other Palestinian Hebrew is an oddball, with DYS-393=13 but the other comparable markers different from any of the West European haplotypes... (except from a rare and porly linked one found in Iceland, from which it differs at DYS=391).

Aaron said...
Not necessarily. All the haplotypes are of the DYS393=12 variety. If you are suggesting some of these priests are converted European Jews I would say the haplotype evidence contradicts this. At least post-diaspora. It would appear that the peopling of the Near East was not from a single source. Take any study which has sampled this region and you will find plenty of R-M269. There are adjacent regions in the Aegean who have similar levels of diversity, namely Greece and Turkey. I don't think anyone can attest to who the "real" Jews were but J1e* is at least a good chunk.
Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:31:00 PM

I took the conversations out of context but was looking for information on DYS393=12 and where that came from.

From Wikipedia I found this: Similarly, within the clade, R1b1b2 (R-M269) by far the most common subclade of R1b in Western Europe, has been said to reach its highest diversity in Iberia and Anatolia. Anatolia (Turkish: is a geographic region of Western Asia, comprising most of the modern Republic of Turkey.
That may be, but I have also found that having DYS 393=12 is rare, and the others have 13. That makes us from a different path.

R1b1b2 (formerly R1b1c, R1b3)
Defining SNP:
Parent Clade:
This subclade is defined by the presence of the M269 marker. It is the subclade most closely corresponding to Haplotype 15. From 2003 to 2005 what is now R1b1b2 was designated R1b3. From 2005 to 2008 it was R1b1c.
This subgroup, may have existed before the last Ice Age, but can be seen as much younger. Another estimate for R1b1b2 arising is around 5,000 to 8,000 years ago.

10/13/09 1) Given that DYS393 apparently has an extremely low mutation rate, WHY do the DYS393=12 participants seem to exhibit some characteristics atypical of the general population of west European ancestry? Such as some indication that some of them belong to Blood Group B... which is of ASIAN origin. Such as appearing to be rooted in Ulster and along the Anglo-Scottish Border, rather than eastern Europe or western Asia. Are they in fact not properly classified as R1b?


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Naham Hial Robinson's Published Genealogy

I just found out that researcher cousin Tom knows of a document that is a published genealogy of Nahum Hial Robinson. Nahum is the brother of Oscar Robinson, and I had thought of brother Abiathar Smith Robinson, our grandfather.

This document is in the library in Brattleboro, Vermont. Tom has asked about an inter-library loan and should hear more about getting it tomorrow, Monday.

He's hoping it will list males that we can contact. We're looking for more Robinsons to take a dna test from this source.

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Saturday, October 10, 2009


Our Rare DYS 393 is a 12

I just found out from several rootsweb postings that our first allele on the test, DYS 393 =12, is very rare for any surname that has been deemed an R1b1b2. Most of the founders had 13 so that we have a very small population.

That seems to mean that we did not come from the same source as most other R1b1b2's. No wonder we are short on matches.

"Indications are that it is of ASIAN origin. Such as appearing to be rooted in Ulster and along the Anglo-Scottish Border, rather than eastern Europe or western Asia. Bennett Greenspan informs me that of the 19,000 participants in the FTDNA database, those who are {[DYS389ii=29, minus D:YS389i=13]=16} and who also are DYS393=12 represent less than 3/10s of 1%. That is an extremely small proportion. "

Reference: Ken Nordtvedt Robinson dna Group

I have registered our Robinson R1b line on a Robinson group in and just checked it and found two matches. One was with an Elwyn Robinson and the 2nd was with a Kandace Keith. They were exact matches with each other. Ancestry did not carry the dys 394 that family tree has, so I couldn't compare that allele. We did not match with dys 390 or 385b, so it wasn't an exact match. It was nice to find other R1b's, though.

I have no way of finding their emails or making contact that I know of.

Another Robinson on Tree Not dna Connected

I did have communication about in April 2009 with a William Leroy Robinson about dna. Unfortunately, ours doesn't match. He had his test through Somehow I erred. His haplogroup is completely different.

There just weren't that many people living in Massachusetts and New England in the beginning, and there were a lot of Robinsons and they intermarried as the others did. Robinson is the 16th most popular surname in the USA, so it stands to reason that Robinsons from many sources would meet.

I do have him on our direct descendant line. We both go back (or so I thought) to George Robinson b: 1626 in Glasgow, Scotland. This is interesting as I have now found through dna that our line is more popular with people in Ireland. Our oral history was that our ancestor came from Wales! Like the game, telephone, facts do change through oral communication.

Thursday, October 08, 2009


Ydna Matches We Do Have-R1b1b2 (R-M269)

This is our picture of Abiathar Smith Robinson and his son, Frank Hugh Robinson, which is my grandfather. It would have been taken in Wenona, Illinois.
This is the picture of Abiathar Smith Robinson b: December 1829 in Vermont that I received from 2nd cousin Tom Mead.

Through familytreedna we have found two matches that are also Robinsons.
1. James Kenneth Robinson-we both had 12 allele test showing a mutual ancestor 24 generations ago -chance of sharing to be 91.41 %

2 Richard Albert Robinson- he had a more thorough test of 37 alleles. Our chance of having a common ancestor 24 generations ago to be 70.47%This was done on the Robinson group. The place most likely was Ireland.

On the ht35 group, which I also signed up with, we have one more match-

1. Joseph Peter Lorenzini who had the 37 allele test. Our chances with him at 24 generations ago is 68.87%.

Another interesting fact is that we had more similarities with Ireland than with England. Our oral history was that the ancestor came over not on the Mayflower but the ship after that. I didn't know any Irish people were on the ships sailing in about 1630. Actually, there were a few matches from England but not many at all. I guess more Robinsons need to take a dna test before we get better results.
Haplogroup R
Haplogroup R is one of the two branches of the mega-haplogroup P. R originated approximately 30,000 years ago in Central Asia. It has two main branches, R1 and R2. R1 spread from Central Asia into Europe. Meanwhile, R2 spread east into the Indian subcontinent. Population movements have brought small numbers of both southward into the Eastern African Levant.

Reference: familytreedna :


YDNA Does Not Match Us

I heard from Donna Robinson yesterday whose ancestor was Oscar Robinson. He is in the Wenona, Illinois cemetery where our ggrandmother, Julia Ann Robinson nee Tuller lies. Donna and I thought that Oscar would have been Julia's husband's brother. She just got the dna report back that her father had done and we're not a match! Donna also had the 12 allele test done through familytreedna. Neither one of us have receieved word that we are a match.

This throws all our figuring out the window. This means that Hiram may not have been the father of our Abiathar Smith Robinson, or that Sally was not previously married to Hiram. Sally would be Sally Robinson nee Smith who remarried when Hiram died to Thomas Russell.

I have never been able to find a paper trail showing exactly who Abiathar's parents were, but had deducted from the location and people there that that's who his parents were. There could be another reason why he moved his family from Vermont to Wenona, Illinois. I hope we get some other matches. I haven't yet heard what Oscar Robinson's haplogroup is. I wonder if it's close to ours.

10/12/09 The haplogroup of Oscar is also R1b1b2. We're off by 3 alleles in the 12 allele test, however so Abiathar couldn't be the brother of Oscar.

We differ in DYS 393. Oscar is a 13 and we are a 12. According to RootsWeb.GENEALOGY-DNA-L Re {DNA}R1bwith DYS393=12, we originated in different places. The 12 is very rare. Most R1b1b2's are a 13.

We also differ in DYS 390 and DYS 385b

The amazing thing is that Oscar's line and Abiathar's wife are buried in the same cemetery in Wenona, Illinois. I thought Oscar's mother, Sally Robinson nee Smith and then remarried to Thomas Russell was also Abiathar's mother. I may have been wrong. Lots of Robinsons were wandering around in New England, and both familes came from Vermont. I found Sally in Jamaica, Windham, Vermont on the same page in the 1840 census with Robinsons and Smiths. She was Sally Robinson, widow. I had thought she had been married to Hiram Robinson b: 1809 Vermont and on that page listed were Hiram, James, John and Reuben Robinson. Further down I found John P? Robinson and family and then also Samuel, Willard and Rufus Smith. Rufus was her father and Sally Marsh was her mother.


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